#69 Reddit: What Was Dating In Recovery Like For You?

Welcome back to the unbreakable boundaries podcast with your host, myself, Jennifer Maneely. I am back again with a nother Reddit story, although this one again is not necessarily a Reddit story. It's a simple question. It's a simple question yet it's complicated. This is coming from the thread Redditors in recovery, and it's just as simple. What was dating and recovery like for you? Well, for me when I think back into my dating life, and what are the reasons I want to kind of start here where I explain why I chose this particular question, especially for this podcast, as it does relate around. For family members, I think it's important that families start to understand what are some of the challenges that we face while we're in recovery. And dating is a really big topic in recovery. Because it's one of those things where romantic relationships are a, I don't, I want to be careful how I say this. Romantic relationships are one of the reasons why people relapse the most, it's the most common reason people break up. They are in a world of pain. And they go through a relapse relationships in general, are very difficult for us. Because we don't always have the skills and the tools to deal with that kind of emotional pain, especially in the beginning. So it can be really tough for me, I remember when I first got out of rehab the very first time and I met a boy pretty quickly, when I got out of rehab, maybe three, four weeks, after I got out of rehab, I met a boy and it was very confusing. I will I don't want to really go into necessarily all of the details, I will say that ultimately I ended up marrying said boy that I met. But there was a lot that that went into that it was a very confusing time. For me, I think for me. At that time, when I looked at him, because I had I had like two months clean. And I was very, very scared. And he had like six months clean. And he seems like he knew what the hell he was doing what he was talking about, he seemed very confident in his recovery and in himself. And I found that to be a really attractive thing. Because I was not very confident in my recovery. This was all very new to me. So I kind of went down the road of thinking that he could help me in my recovery. And what I'll say is, is for any new people that are in recovery, that is not how that works. A lot of times it's more like the blind leading the blind. And that it was the case in this situation where it he wasn't as in recovery, even at that time as I thought but he was let's just let's just say that. And so. But there was a lot more things that happened. And even amongst all my other dating stuff outside of this person, it was still really confusing to me. I think even at the time, like I was thinking about, you know, struggling like with things like my sexuality. That was really hard for me, especially early on, in recovery, to kind of figure out because I just didn't really know what I was. I didn't really know how to manage myself. I didn't know what to do with myself in. In recovery. I didn't know who I was, I didn't know who I wanted to be. I didn't have the tools. And at the end of it when it came down because like I said, I ended up marrying this boy but even moving forward after we'd been dating for a little while. It was really easy for him to convince me that maybe we didn't need because we were in a 12 step program at a time and it was really easy for him to convince me that maybe we didn't need said 12 STEP program for various reasons. Again, I'm not gonna go down into those types of details, because that's not what the point is here, what I'll say is, is dating and recovery can be really, really confusing, it can be really painful, I think it's really good for people to have a solid foundation of people in their life that can help them for when things may not go according to plan, or the things don't go the way that you want them to. Right, like, it's really good to be connected. And I think this is there's a very common thing. I don't necessarily believe in this specifically, but they say like, don't take for the first year, you're in recovery, which I think a lot of people argue with, I think a lot of people don't, necessarily, the majority of people don't do that. I think though, the intent in saying that is to give people a chance to really connect themselves into a recovery program and connect themselves with other people. So like people in these recovery programs, that that's not always what this term is called. But like a mentor or sponsor, it's good to have one of those. And it's good to have a solid relationship with a sponsor or solid relationship with a community. And that can kind of take some time to really develop because you're going to need that, when things fall apart. I say when because, you know, most of the time they do. Even if you end up getting married to this person, right, there's still going to be moments in that relationship that are tough that that, you know, relationships, there's arguments, there is pain, even if it's not the pain of like a breakup, that it's good to have a foundation, and it's good to have a community, it's good to have, have developed tools and skills in order to handle that. A lot of times people just kind of grit through it, the pain when they break up, but a lot of those people even early on, they're the ones that, let's say you do get into a relationship early in recovery. And the ones that I have seen now, you know, this is not a rule, it's just kind of what I have seen, the ones that do make it through those types of breakups without, you know, going and getting high and running the recovery journey. are the ones that have really dove into the recovery community, whether you know, healthy or not, I mean, you dive into that recovery community. And those tend to be the people that can make it through, even if it's messy, even if it's not pretty even if that person does, you know, behaves in such a way that's not the way that maybe they would handle it in the future. At least they can get through it not getting high. So that's kind of what I've seen. I want to kind of hit on some of these comments here because I think I think they're great. Let's see. At six years sober I've had two relationships. One we were talking about getting married, I recovered fully from the first relationship she was a miserable person can't even stand the sound of her voice, sneer that is perfectly on her face. She was very manipulative, toxic, gaslighting, dishonest. The engagement relationship has been difficult to get over I loved her more than any woman I've ever met. She tried forcing it on me that I have a personality disorder that I never cared for her only cared about how she made me feel. She's right about some of it. I also feel like she bullied me into accepting her perspectives. I didn't stand my ground I feel like we both manipulated each other into an unhealthy state truly sad. The moral of the story for me if losing the relationship will take away sobriety don't do it. Don't hurt the ones you love. Don't take things too seriously. I almost have my shit together after six years to then I imagine the next level shit together comes after this level. I think I'm at. Yeah, so you know, I think a lot of people will say that this is these these are the relationships that sometimes we can find ourselves in that are difficult to get out. Now one here's the other thing that I will say I'm talking about my experience of dating and what it's been like and it's been done For me, it still has, I'm not a expert on dating, I'm single, I have found for me that I keep getting into relationships with the same person, not literally the same person, but you know, like, the same person over and over, that have these specific traits and that are unhealthy and it has something to do with me. I don't know how to necessarily work. This is my theory is my working theory right now I have no idea because I'm not an expert in this is my theory, though, is I've worked so much on myself, that I have gone as far as I can with myself as it relates to relationships. And now I'm at the point where it's like, I have to work on myself in a relationship because the gym that is single, I have learned is different than the gym that is in the relationship. Jen that a single is much more confidence in herself and so many more areas, knows who she is, and can voice that, mostly. But Jenna is in a relationship sometimes starts to begin to get a lot of those insecurities come right up. And I don't always know how to deal with those very well. So Jen is not an expert at relationships, and I'm not claiming to be I am just saying, This is my experience of what it's been like dating and recovery is it's been really tough, especially you know, those first few things. It's, it's hard because, you know, I've I've dated people that have been both part of a 12 step program and what we call normies, which is like, you know, people that are not in recovery, people that can do normal things and drink normally and don't do the drugs and all of those things. We call those people normies I have dated both and both come with some complexities. Relationships are just hard. So anyway, all right, so more comments. I think people who are all quote, don't date until you have your whole life together and have been clean for a year at least, and in quote, are either sexually active or in a relationship and can shut the EFF up. Life is hard enough as it is. This person has some some very strong opinions about this. Even in the GED bible it is written it is not good for man to be alone loneliness can cause about as much health issues as drugs. In many cases, it's best to be prepared for short lived relationships, though not make it on the basis of one's existence, which is of course easier said than done when you're only recently realizing how much of your life has been wasted and ruined by drug abuse. So reading that, I'm going to fill in some of the blanks here because this person has obviously, some very strong opinions and has been told repeatedly things and I'm guessing this is an assumption but because I know kind of how the recovery programs lean on the relationships and I think this this person has a lot to work through when they are looking at their own relationships. It's best to be prepared for short lived relationships though not to make a basis of one existence. And what they're saying is is like I think don't make that person your entire world which I agree with this we struggle let's see. Here's another comment. I believe you're half right. See, I you know what, that's a response to that comment. Um, let's see. Here here's one a non existent been single for seven years now and so many people have told me I'm handsome guy, maybe much less now. overdosing sounds nice. That is a pretty dramatic. overdosing sounds nice. This is obviously a person that sounds like they also really struggle. And they have found it very difficult. Maybe they just haven't ever learned those tools. Here's another When you can't love someone until you love yourself, so do you love yourself? And you know, I want to break that down because this is something that we say I think culturally not just when it comes to recovery, and again, this is Jen's perspective, this is Jen's world, this is Jim's philosophy, so take it with a grain of salt, right is I do believe that we can only love, you know, someone as much as we love ourselves, but in what way so like, if I really break down particular areas of my life, so I'm not insecure in every area of my life, right? I love myself in so many areas, in in my life. And so in those areas, I can love someone that much. There may be other areas where I have a hard time with myself. And I may not love myself in those compartments of my life. And so I don't necessarily look at someone as a whole, this is just me, I don't look at people as a whole, although it's good to see people as a whole, right. And this could get into a deeper conversation than I want to go here. And maybe I will go into a deeper conversation. If you have any questions. You know what, if you want to talk about this more this, what I'll say is reach out to me. And we can talk more about this. You can either shoot me an email Jennifer at Maneely consulting.com. Or you can go to my website, Maneely consulting.com, and get in touch with me that way. But the way that I look at people's I break people down into certain like, columns and areas and I break myself down. So just because I don't love myself in one area doesn't mean I can't love myself in another area. And that doesn't mean that I can't love someone else. Write. So if we I don't think it is as simple as breaking things down into percentages. But I think like say I love myself 70% Based on all of the categories in which I break myself down, let's say 70%, which I think is a really high number. And maybe that's wrong, but I do when I really break things down into what I look, when I look at myself, I love myself 70% that I can possibly love someone else. 70%. And I think I think there is a determination. Like if I just don't love myself at all, then I'm there's no way for me to go. But I have not ever really met someone even in their most depressed, right. I've not met someone who just doesn't love themselves at all, I think that they may struggle in seeing that and bring it up to the forefront of their mind on a regular basis on the things that they do love because maybe they're depressed. But if you really sit down and talk to them, the people that you think that there's just no way that they love themselves at all. They actually really do if you really sit down and start breaking them down into pieces. It's like, Well, do you love this about yourself? Do you love that about yourself? And they're like, Yeah, of course I do. And then, you know, they're able to love that and other people. And so I mean, it's the way that we can and can't at the same time. Both love ourselves and not love ourselves. So I think that I think it's really hard when we just see only as one piece when we can really break ourselves down into 1000s of smaller pieces. And I think it's sometimes that can be really important to do. I have I know that that's really important for me to like, instead of me saying, Oh, I don't like that person. Right? I may not like what someone is doing. And I think it's an important distinction for my own well being is to think about people in terms of, you know, not thinking of them as Oh, I don't like that person but saying I don't like when this person does this, it really interferes in this way and this is why I may not hang out with them is because that behavior that they're exhibiting is not a behavior that is serving me in any way and so I can't have that in my life. But if that be behavior was to change. If that person was to change that behavior, I'd be more than happy to, like, hang out with them. So I don't really go around going, I don't like that person. It's like, I don't like this thing about that person. And so that that thing about that person makes it really hard for me to want to hang out with them. And so then I don't, right. So then it gives both me and them a little grace as well. But you know, behaviors are can sometimes be really hard to change. So that's the other thing where it's like that the behavior that I may not really like, they may never really change, and I may never really want to be their friend. So it's as simple as that. And I'm sure that there are people that have met me, and maybe I have exhibited a behavior that they didn't particularly like, and so then they're like, Can I really just don't like gin? And then they can't, you know, they don't want to be friends with me. And that's okay, too. But it's not me. It's not me that they don't like it may be something maybe I said something that just really rubbed them wrong. And I can tell you, I've had plenty of people tell me that I have said something that really rubbed them the wrong way. And then they didn't like me after it. Sometimes they come back to me and say, Jen, you were so right. Because they didn't really want to hear it at the time. And sometimes, you know, I just lose friendships because I maybe had said something that just really irritated them. Because I'm kind of a matter of fact, person sometimes. And sometimes I don't always beat around the bush and whatever. So anyway, a few more comments, and then and then we'll, we'll move on. Let's see. I took two years of sober recovery to myself. Before dating, I found my first healthy relationship. And we had what I thought was a good run for two years, then he dumped me. So what do I do? Now I'm single by choice, until I have my stuff together home job situation declined. So yeah, again, really difficult relationships or a path to agony for me in my first two to three years, I have never handled breakups well, and one of them would lead to a major relapse on Christmas Day. It's a win win, lose lose situation. I married my rehab romance after an appropriate amount of time sober and together could have gone super arrived. glad it didn't. Now, this time, this sometimes does happen, right? Where people meet, like in rehab, which is highly not recommended, because 99% of the time that goes really poorly. And then every now and then you have that case, where it's magical, and they actually go on and live a beautiful and happy and healthy life together. And I think that 99% hope that they're the 1%. But the 99% that helped other the 1% really find out that they're the 99%. So that's a that's a hard one. Just couple more, let's see, I have never dated in recovery, because heartbreak is what often led me to long, hard relapses. Here's the thing about recovery, though, and I know this is sounding Excuse me. I know this is sounding very dismal, I guess, is, you know, we have to learn Relationships are hard in general. And when we have to learn how to do them, we just have to learn how to have these romantic relationships and not get high over them. But we have these romantic relationships, not get high over them, but they're still painful. And I think that's true, whether you're in recovery or not. Right, like, you know, it's painful. The challenges is people in recovery. When that pain comes, that's a kind of a trigger. So we have to kind of learn how to deal with that. And it can be hard, but we still have to learn how to date in recovery. It's just a skill. And this is where having people is really really important. Because these are this is a big milestone for people and why it's recommended to be a part of a recovery community. The thing that I have found that people have the biggest challenge with being in a recovery community is the people it's not whatever foundation Whether it's you know, AAA in a smart recovery, Celebrate Recovery or dharma recovery, any of those other recovery programs, right? It's never the foundation that people have the problem with, I think any of those are amazing programs, any of them. And they have a solid foundation, I think what gets people in trouble is the people in those foundations, they, maybe they meet up with the wrong person, wrong persons, you know, screws up more people screw them, right, like, learning how to deal with the pain of just being in this world with other people can sometimes because we don't come in with knowing who all of the good people are always right like that takes time to develop, we're so used to resonating with a particular person, that sometimes we come into this program and find the people that we resonate with, and they're usually unhealthy, because we are still unhealthy. And so it's that can be really complicated to is, but we still have to kind of learn how to do that, and just manage the pain. So anyway, well, I think I'm gonna, there's, there's quite a few more comments, I think you can kind of get the gist of how people are, when they think about dating and recovery, what that looks like, and I hope for the families, that it gives you a really good understanding of a few things. One, that just because the drugs or the alcohol is removed, that makes our life a little bit more challenging. It does it yes, the benefits of it are so good. But it's not the end, we have so much that we still have to learn even once we remove the drugs and alcohol, that is just the beginning. So we're facing a lot of really scary situations for us, and a lot of pain for us, that can be challenging. And so I think it's really important for the families to understand what we're up against, and that maybe the families can help encourage their loved ones, to be a part of a community, you know, any community, I don't care what the community is, it just needs to be a community that supportive of their recovery. And that can understand what they're up against and what they're facing. And then how to talk about this is why, like, I spent a lot of time talking about the tools and the skills. Because not just every community that is ever in existence, like a church community. I think a church community is really, really amazing. But they're not necessarily full of people that understand what it means to date and recover in recovery right now celebrate recovery, which happens to lean a lot on the church organization that like they may really be able to understand because Celebrate Recovery does have an emphasis on like, more of the religious way of thinking. So that's an option, you know, like, smart recovery is just it's a little bit different than like the 12 steps. But then, like, you know, I think it's important that if, like your loved one is just resistance to all community. It means that they're resistant. And and a lot of times they haven't even tried not really tried. But then maybe they're just resistant to the idea of recovery, and they're not ready. Right. So that's that's the other thing, but I think it's really good for the families to be supportive and encouraging of their loved ones to be a part of a recovery community. Now I know if you've ever listened to like my mom and I's podcasts together, she fully admitted that it was really hard for her. Like when I when I wanted to leave recovery.

The like the first time she was kind of a little support, not supportive. But she was kind of like Oh good. That was just a fake. He's of her life. And now we can get back to normal because that's kind of how I positioned it to her, right? Well, it's like, well, I've been clean for, you know, 18 months now, and I'm doing really well. And I just don't really think that I need this lifestyle, I think I'm good, I think I've moved on and, and now I can kind of just go live my life. And I think for her, that was a little bit of a relief at the time. So I understand and know how hard it can be for families to get their heads wrapped around, that this is the way that their loved one needs to live their life. But at the same time, it's like when you're facing these kinds of challenges, it's also really important for those families to be supportive of having people that can maintain like, you know, like, even at the time, when I left, I had 18 months, which sounds like a long time to a lot of people that maybe you're you know, again, normies, or whatever they're like, Yeah, that's enough time to kind of get your life back together. And to a certain extent it was but I still had so much to learn about myself, I wasn't married yet, I still I was missing a lot of fundamental tools and skills that I needed to know how to be a human in this world to know how to adult in this world, I was still missing a lot of those pieces even at that time. So

I think it's good that families get to hear about these challenges that we're facing. So you can begin to understand this is it's far less about just removing drugs away. And it's far more about having it as a journey, which for the families, that means that you have a journey for yourself that you are going to be experiencing, and you have tools and skills that you need to help yourself understand what your loved one may be experiencing and going through and help you fill those gaps. You have your own emotional journey. And understanding, even though it's very different than what they're going to be experiencing, you're going to be experiencing these things as well. And so I think it's really important for families to also think about getting help for themselves, which is what I do. And I help the families kind of start understanding more of these types of situations and what they're going through and, and how to kind of manage themselves, while their loved one is experiencing all of these types of journeys and not having the skills to communicate with their families. So effectively are the tools to kind of deal with their emotional stuff, and, and then how to help families kind of gain some more of their own tools. So please, if this is something that you're interested in, knowing more about, you can go check out my website Maneely consulting.com. I also have a YouTube channel where I do videos. So if you're more into videos, and they're a little bit shorter, so I'll take this podcast, and I will shrink it up quite a bit into shorter videos. So if that is something that interests you, you can go check out my YouTube channel at it's my handle is at the the unbreakable boundaries. So anyway, I hope this was helpful. And please feel free to reach out to me with any thoughts or questions you can go hit my website Maneely consulting.com. Thank you for listening to this podcast. If you want to listen to more or find more information out about this podcast and more of what I do to help families you can go check out my page at unbreakable boundaries podcast.com It's full of other great podcasts just like this one and other great resources to look through. You can also check out my main website which is Maneely consulting.com. And Neely is spelled ma N e L ey consulting.com. You can also see all the other things that I do to help families that have loved ones with substance abuse issues. And please remember to share this podcast with others. You never know who may need to hear this people are often hiding their battles in this arena. And sharing is a great way to provide this valuable resource to a person you may not even know who needs it. And don't forget there is always hope even when things seem the most hopeless